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> <channel><title>Comments on: Umineko no Naku Koro ni, episode 20 – Zugzwang</title> <atom:link href="http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/</link> <description>A blog about anime, Hinagiku, Horo, Haruhi and any other girls that start with an H</description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:45:44 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: RP</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1359</link> <dc:creator>RP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 05:52:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1359</guid> <description>Ok, that makes sense. There hasn&#039;t been any connection between the Anges so far, so I was wondering about that. If meta-Battler can affect his game piece version (and vice versa), it makes sense that Ange would be able to do the same with her 1998 version.
In thinking about the Umineko realities, I&#039;ve been trying to draw parallels with how the Higurashi realities (trying not to get too spoilery here). Which was why I was thinking that Ange helping to solve the game would lead all roads back to her 1986 version. However, these being two separate stories, perhaps that&#039;s not the best way to think about it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, that makes sense. There hasn&#8217;t been any connection between the Anges so far, so I was wondering about that. If meta-Battler can affect his game piece version (and vice versa), it makes sense that Ange would be able to do the same with her 1998 version.</p><p>In thinking about the Umineko realities, I&#8217;ve been trying to draw parallels with how the Higurashi realities (trying not to get too spoilery here). Which was why I was thinking that Ange helping to solve the game would lead all roads back to her 1986 version. However, these being two separate stories, perhaps that&#8217;s not the best way to think about it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jubbz</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1355</link> <dc:creator>Jubbz</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 03:01:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1355</guid> <description>Looks like the guys over at witch-hunt.com got famous
.-= Jubbz´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/DeliciousChocoSyrupyWafflesBlog/~3/B3JfixJ7X-Q/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Queen&#8217;s Blade Season 2 Episodes 6 and 7&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like the guys over at witch-hunt.com got famous<br
/> .-= Jubbz´s last blog ..<a
href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/DeliciousChocoSyrupyWafflesBlog/~3/B3JfixJ7X-Q/" rel="nofollow">Queen&#8217;s Blade Season 2 Episodes 6 and 7</a> =-.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Serpit</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1352</link> <dc:creator>Serpit</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:13:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1352</guid> <description>Not necessarily - We don&#039;t really know how the universe of kakera works, if there is a &quot;true&quot; one or if it would just be a single one among myriads of unhappy ends. However, all the Meta-beings exists outside of the different timelines anyway, so the current Ange would still live on in her kakera, and so would Meta-Ange outside of the timeline. The question here is whether &quot;Gretel&quot; is willing to sacrifice the opportunity of being together with her brother for the happiness of an Ange she stopped being 12 years ago.
The 2 Anges after the &quot;split&quot; are definitely connected though. You can look at them just as you look at the 2 versions of Battler we see: While his Meta-self can&#039;t influence his real life counterpart, he can experience the events that happen to him. I hope you don&#039;t consider this a spoiler, but certain events that have yet to happen to 1998&#039;s Ange will definitely influence Meta-Ange.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not necessarily &#8211; We don&#8217;t really know how the universe of kakera works, if there is a &#8220;true&#8221; one or if it would just be a single one among myriads of unhappy ends. However, all the Meta-beings exists outside of the different timelines anyway, so the current Ange would still live on in her kakera, and so would Meta-Ange outside of the timeline. The question here is whether &#8220;Gretel&#8221; is willing to sacrifice the opportunity of being together with her brother for the happiness of an Ange she stopped being 12 years ago.</p><p>The 2 Anges after the &#8220;split&#8221; are definitely connected though. You can look at them just as you look at the 2 versions of Battler we see: While his Meta-self can&#8217;t influence his real life counterpart, he can experience the events that happen to him. I hope you don&#8217;t consider this a spoiler, but certain events that have yet to happen to 1998&#8242;s Ange will definitely influence Meta-Ange.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RP</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1351</link> <dc:creator>RP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:47:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1351</guid> <description>Not a big Ange fan? :p</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a big Ange fan? :p</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RP</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1350</link> <dc:creator>RP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:45:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1350</guid> <description>Right, meta-Ange and 1998 Ange are splits of the same Ange. But my impression was that meta-Ange and 1998 on-the-run Ange are operating parallel, but completely disconnected from each other. I could&#039;ve interpreted this wrong, but it was thinking meta-Ange was ignorant of everything on-the-run Ange was doing after jumping off the roof - this would include learning that the bottled letters and the grimoire had the same handwriting.
Wouldn&#039;t Ange winning the game and returning Battler and her family back to 1986 erase the existence of the current unhappy Ange though (and all the other parallel realities where Ange might be unhappy and alone)?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, meta-Ange and 1998 Ange are splits of the same Ange. But my impression was that meta-Ange and 1998 on-the-run Ange are operating parallel, but completely disconnected from each other. I could&#8217;ve interpreted this wrong, but it was thinking meta-Ange was ignorant of everything on-the-run Ange was doing after jumping off the roof &#8211; this would include learning that the bottled letters and the grimoire had the same handwriting.</p><p>Wouldn&#8217;t Ange winning the game and returning Battler and her family back to 1986 erase the existence of the current unhappy Ange though (and all the other parallel realities where Ange might be unhappy and alone)?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: RP</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1349</link> <dc:creator>RP</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:40:07 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1349</guid> <description>It&#039;s definitely not an easy choice. In fact, that&#039;s why I said that &quot;it&#039;s not easy to have to erase your curent self&quot; right after that sentence. But if Ange&#039;s able to think about it rationally, it&#039;s not quite the dilemma her initial reaction makes it out to be. Like Shinmaru mentions in his reply, Ange staying with her brother &quot;forever&quot; comes at a very high cost. And Ange&#039;s main goal is to revive her family, not spend time with Battler forever.
For me, the decision basically comes down to this: do you want to be with your loved one forever in hell, or do you want to give life another chance. Not necessarily the easiest of decisions, but it shines the light on how bad Lambda&#039;s offer actually is.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s definitely not an easy choice. In fact, that&#8217;s why I said that &#8220;it&#8217;s not easy to have to erase your curent self&#8221; right after that sentence. But if Ange&#8217;s able to think about it rationally, it&#8217;s not quite the dilemma her initial reaction makes it out to be. Like Shinmaru mentions in his reply, Ange staying with her brother &#8220;forever&#8221; comes at a very high cost. And Ange&#8217;s main goal is to revive her family, not spend time with Battler forever.</p><p>For me, the decision basically comes down to this: do you want to be with your loved one forever in hell, or do you want to give life another chance. Not necessarily the easiest of decisions, but it shines the light on how bad Lambda&#8217;s offer actually is.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Marion</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1348</link> <dc:creator>Marion</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:54:27 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1348</guid> <description>Basically what happens is this: those Ange&#039;s are adopted by Kasumi, as the closest living relative to her family (being Kyrie&#039;s sister). The reason Bern picked up Ange from EP 3 was because that Ange had a COMPLETELY different life from the one regular Ange&#039;s have (since all her family dies) because Eva lived and adopted her, instead of Kasumi.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically what happens is this: those Ange&#8217;s are adopted by Kasumi, as the closest living relative to her family (being Kyrie&#8217;s sister). The reason Bern picked up Ange from EP 3 was because that Ange had a COMPLETELY different life from the one regular Ange&#8217;s have (since all her family dies) because Eva lived and adopted her, instead of Kasumi.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Shinmaru</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1347</link> <dc:creator>Shinmaru</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:15:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1347</guid> <description>I think the big problem is Ange can&#039;t really take what anyone says at face value -- including Lambdadelta and Bernkastel. The result Lambdadelta describes is a total unknown; it COULD be true (and probably is), but there is no way to be completely sure unless Ange actually wins the game with Battler. By keeping the game in limbo, though, Ange pretty much knows what she&#039;ll get: Yeah, she&#039;ll be with Battler forever, but it&#039;s at the cost of seeing her family murdered for eternity, and really, she&#039;ll probably see meta-Battler break eventually if she goes that route.
Personally, I would much rather go for the unknown route than the known route, although I could see Ange legitimately struggle with this choice. It might even be kind of interesting if Ange were to go back and forth on giving her true insight if she were thinking about going along with Lambdadelta.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the big problem is Ange can&#8217;t really take what anyone says at face value &#8212; including Lambdadelta and Bernkastel. The result Lambdadelta describes is a total unknown; it COULD be true (and probably is), but there is no way to be completely sure unless Ange actually wins the game with Battler. By keeping the game in limbo, though, Ange pretty much knows what she&#8217;ll get: Yeah, she&#8217;ll be with Battler forever, but it&#8217;s at the cost of seeing her family murdered for eternity, and really, she&#8217;ll probably see meta-Battler break eventually if she goes that route.</p><p>Personally, I would much rather go for the unknown route than the known route, although I could see Ange legitimately struggle with this choice. It might even be kind of interesting if Ange were to go back and forth on giving her true insight if she were thinking about going along with Lambdadelta.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Serpit</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1346</link> <dc:creator>Serpit</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:20:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1346</guid> <description>&quot;1998, following the path of the 3rd game, in which Ange grows up with Eva, meets Bernkastel, at which point her existence seems to split:
* One version is whisked away by Bernkastel and now exists in the meta-world, and is battling Beatrice with Battler
* The other version jumped from the roof for kicks, but is now on the run from the Sumadara family. This Ange seems to be taking a more conventional route at figuring out what happened.&quot;
The two versions you described are the same person. Basically, Ange&#039;s journey in the world of 1998 continues after her Meta-self barged into Beato&#039;s little party at the end of Episode 3, and they share the same consciousness. All the events we see happening before Ange&#039;s jump are flashbacks of this Ange&#039;s past (in the future, naturally &gt;_&gt;), and the stuff she does with Amakusa accompanying her are running parallel to her participation in the Meta-game between Beato and Battler.
As for Ange&#039;s decisison on wheter or not to try and win the game: The dilemma here is that she is and never will be the Ange that would get her family back if she were to win, but her foremost desire is to spend time with her brother. By playing with him eternally, she could be together with his brother forever, which is exactly what she wants - but at the price of her family being caught in the endlessly repeating events on Rokkenjima in 1986. If she were to win, however, she would not get to spend anymore time with her brother - Her Meta-self would likely cease to exist, as it is just a piece on a game which would then be over, and her real self would life the rest of her life lonely and bitter anyway.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;1998, following the path of the 3rd game, in which Ange grows up with Eva, meets Bernkastel, at which point her existence seems to split:</p><p> * One version is whisked away by Bernkastel and now exists in the meta-world, and is battling Beatrice with Battler<br
/> * The other version jumped from the roof for kicks, but is now on the run from the Sumadara family. This Ange seems to be taking a more conventional route at figuring out what happened.&#8221;</p><p>The two versions you described are the same person. Basically, Ange&#8217;s journey in the world of 1998 continues after her Meta-self barged into Beato&#8217;s little party at the end of Episode 3, and they share the same consciousness. All the events we see happening before Ange&#8217;s jump are flashbacks of this Ange&#8217;s past (in the future, naturally &gt;_&gt;), and the stuff she does with Amakusa accompanying her are running parallel to her participation in the Meta-game between Beato and Battler.</p><p>As for Ange&#8217;s decisison on wheter or not to try and win the game: The dilemma here is that she is and never will be the Ange that would get her family back if she were to win, but her foremost desire is to spend time with her brother. By playing with him eternally, she could be together with his brother forever, which is exactly what she wants &#8211; but at the price of her family being caught in the endlessly repeating events on Rokkenjima in 1986. If she were to win, however, she would not get to spend anymore time with her brother &#8211; Her Meta-self would likely cease to exist, as it is just a piece on a game which would then be over, and her real self would life the rest of her life lonely and bitter anyway.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Janette</title><link>http://www.rabbitpoets.com/umineko-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-20-zugzwang/#comment-1345</link> <dc:creator>Janette</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:35:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabbitpoets.com/?p=7189#comment-1345</guid> <description>If Ange decides to throw the game on purpose, I&#039;m going to lose all respect for her. Not that I had much right now, but...
.-= Janette´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://cjblackwing.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/umineko-20-ange-can-actually-smile/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Umineko 20-Ange can actually smile&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Ange decides to throw the game on purpose, I&#8217;m going to lose all respect for her. Not that I had much right now, but&#8230;<br
/> .-= Janette´s last blog ..<a
href="http://cjblackwing.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/umineko-20-ange-can-actually-smile/" rel="nofollow">Umineko 20-Ange can actually smile</a> =-.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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